The Erik Karlsson trade saga is finally over. The Pittsburgh Penguins have acquired the 2023 Norris Trophy winner from the San Jose Sharks, according to Daily Faceoff’s Frank Seravalli. Sportsnet’s Elliotte Friedman reports the Montreal Canadiens are involved in the trade to aid in salary considerations. Pittsburgh later officially announced the massive deal, which includes 12 parts and breaks down as follows:
PIT receives: D Erik Karlsson, F Rem Pitlick, F Dillion Hamaliuk, 2026 third-round pick (SJS)
SJS receives: 2024 first-round pick (PIT, top-ten protected), F Mikael Granlund, D Jan Rutta, F Mike Hoffman
MTL receives: 2025 second-round pick (PIT), D Jeff Petry, G Casey DeSmith, F Nathan Legare
San Jose is retaining $1.5MM of Karlsson’s $11.5MM cap hit through 2026-27. Montreal is retaining no salary on Karlsson in this trade, meaning the Penguins have Karlsson at a massive $10MM cap hit for four more seasons. Pittsburgh also retains $1.5625MM, or 25%, of Petry’s cap hit. Montreal will have him at a cap hit of $4.6875MM through 2025.
Sportsnet’s Eric Engels also believes Montreal is not Petry’s final destination. The Canadiens are likely to flip their former number-one defenseman before next season starts, potentially retaining up to 50 percent on his already reduced cap hit, making him cost just $2.34MM against the cap for his new team.
Pittsburgh has a net cap hit loss of $3.1MM in this trade, per CapFriendly. By doing so, they’ll likely be able to activate Jake Guentzel and his $6MM cap hit from LTIR when he’s ready to return to the ice in November without making any corresponding moves. CapFriendly projected Pittsburgh with $2.75MM in cap space, with Guentzel on LTIR to start the season.
Karlsson, 33, ended an up-and-down five-year stint with the Sharks on a high note. Despite playing on a bottom-five team in the league, Karlsson’s 101 points in 82 games were the most from a defenseman in a single season since Brian Leetch in 1991-92. Once viewed as the best defenseman in the NHL during his time with the Ottawa Senators in the mid-2010s, the Sharks acquired him in a blockbuster deal in 2018 and later extended him on a massive eight-year, $92MM contract, giving him the highest cap hit in the league among defensemen.
However, it was a decision that failed to pan out the way San Jose envisioned, as Karlsson struggled with injuries during most of his time in California. To make matters worse, the team around him also crumbled as the Sharks fell out of yearly playoff contention for the first time this millennium.
Pittsburgh hopes Karlsson’s turnaround last season has given him renewed confidence heading into the latter half of his contract – assuming his recent injury history doesn’t come back to bite him. 2022-23 was the first time Karlsson had played in 70-plus games since 2017-18, his last season with the Senators.
Many will be concerned with Karlsson’s defensive misgivings, but some slightly reduced ice time in Pittsburgh should lessen his negative impact on the team’s goals-against total. Likely to slot in on the team’s second pairing behind Kris Letang, Karlsson should be paired with either Marcus Pettersson or free-agent acquisition Ryan Graves on the left side, both players with strong defensive reputations. Advanced metrics peg Pettersson near the top of the league in terms of his individual even strength defensive impact.
Pitlick could be an under-the-radar add for Pittsburgh in this deal from Montreal. While he’s far from being a long-term fixture, he is on the younger side (in Pittsburgh, at least) at 26 years old and will add some higher-upside depth scoring to a Penguins lineup that needs it, especially with Guentzel on the shelf to start the year. In 2021-22, Pitlick notched 15 goals, 22 assists and 37 points in 66 games split between the Canadiens and Minnesota Wild. He’s struggled to develop an all-around game at the NHL level, though, and he’s more of a finishing and playmaking specialist than anything else. His overall play-driving impacts are poor, and it led to Montreal stashing him in the minors for a fair bit of last season. There, he registered 22 points in 18 games with the AHL’s Laval Rocket.
Hamaliuk, 22, once had a fair bit of upside – after all, San Jose thought he warranted a second-round selection in the 2019 NHL Draft. Injuries and middling performance since turning pro have wiped out nearly all of his stock, though. He played in just six games last season, all in the ECHL with the Wichita Thunder, although he did look good in limited action with seven points. The Penguins will likely watch him closely in the minors with the AHL’s Wilkes-Barre/Scranton Penguins next season to see if he can recapture some of his former potential.
For the Sharks, trading Karlsson while only retaining $1.5MM is a solid bit of work for general manager Mike Grier. However, the return is rather underwhelming – a likely mid-first-round pick and a trio of depth NHL assets that won’t amount to much value for a rebuilding team. They’ve essentially taken on two bad contracts and a depth defender to rid themselves of long-term financial pain, as despite his elite skill, Karlsson absolutely did not factor into the franchise’s long-term plans post-rebuild.
The trade does provide a fresh start for Granlund, a former top-six fixture who struggled mightily after heading to the Penguins from the Nashville Predators at last year’s trade deadline (just five points in 21 games). He is just one campaign removed from a 64-point season, however, and although his possession metrics are quite poor, he does still carry a fair amount of raw skill that could see him once again elevate into a top-six role on a weak Sharks team, potentially playing alongside Alexander Barabanov and Logan Couture. With two seasons left at a $5MM cap hit, the Sharks could look to flip him at the 2024 trade deadline if he has a strong season, likely with significant salary retention. However, as CapFriendly notes, San Jose has just one of their three salary retention slots remaining for the next two seasons after also retaining salary on Brent Burns when they traded him to the Carolina Hurricanes last summer. In total, the Sharks are left with $7.745MM in dead cap space this year after the two salary retentions, plus the buyouts of goalie Martin Jones and forward Rudolfs Balcers.
Rutta is under contract at $2.75MM for two more seasons, and he’ll likely give the Sharks a fair amount of value. The two-time Stanley Cup champion with the Tampa Bay Lightning could very well step into a top-four role for the Sharks, who will likely roll three pairings by committee this season in the absence of a clear number-one defender. Rutta recorded nine points in 56 games for the Penguins last season, his only season in the Steel City while averaging 17:07 of ice time per game. Pittsburgh signed the 33-year-old to a three-year, $8.25MM contract in free agency last summer.
Clearing Hoffman’s $4.5MM cap hit for this season off the books is a solid bit of business for the Canadiens, who were rumored to be considering waiving Hoffman ahead of next season and assigning him to the AHL’s Laval Rocket. There’s no guarantee he’ll be able to escape the same fate with San Jose, however. The Sharks will undoubtedly prioritize roster spots for younger wingers like William Eklund, Filip Zadina and Fabian Zetterlund, leaving Hoffman without a clear place among the Sharks’ top 12 forwards. Now 33, Hoffman did manage 14 goals and 34 points in 67 games for Montreal last year, but he ranks among the worst play-driving forwards in the league and is solely a power-play specialist at this stage in his career. Some will remember this is technically Hoffman’s second stint as a member of the Sharks organization – San Jose acquired him from Ottawa for a few hours in 2018 before flipping him to the Florida Panthers.
Now, moving on to Montreal, who became an unexpected major player in this deal. Petry may not remain with his former team, as mentioned earlier, and DeSmith may not either. He’s a puzzling addition for a team that already has Sam Montembeault and Jake Allen manning the crease, although Pittsburgh did need to move out a goalie after signing Alex Nedeljkovic in free agency, giving them three NHL goalies on their roster. However, Montreal now faces the same predicament, and DeSmith is unlikely to supersede Allen or Montembeault on the team’s depth chart. If they don’t flip him to another team looking for a backup netminder, DeSmith could be waived to start the season and end up with Laval. He started a career-high 33 games for Pittsburgh last season, and the 31-year-old recorded a 15-16-4 record, .905 save percentage, and no shutouts.
Legare is a depth addition who will suit up for Laval next season. The 22-year-old third-round pick of the Penguins in 2019 is still finding his footing in the minors. Last season, he posted eight goals, 11 assists and 19 points in 68 games with AHL Wilkes-Barre/Scranton.
Photo courtesy of USA Today Sports Images.
To PIT: Erik Karlsson, Rem Pitlick, Hamaliuk and San Jose’s 2026 third-round draft pick.
TO SJ: Pittsburgh’s 2024 first-round draft pick, Granlund, Rutta and Hoffman.
TO MTL: acquires Pittsburgh’s 2025 second-round draft pick, Jeff Petry, Casey DeSmith, Legare.
Pens get their man, and get rid of a LOT of roster dead weight. Sure Karlsson is expensive, but I’m in shock that Dina’s was able to offload Granlund, Perry, Rutta and Desmith in the same deal.
CHRISTMAS CAME EARLY!!! Could not have dreamed this up better. What a deal.
Sharks are buying out Hoffman, right? Unless he and Couture have made up…
I know that Hoffman’s wife had a beef with Karlsson. I never heard anything about Couture.
He cross-checked Couture in the back of the head years ago. Also ironic that Hoffman and Karlsson are apart of the same trade here
Let’s not overplay that. Physical play, including cross checks, are part of the game. Players usually forget about it and move on. The Karlsson-Hoffman situation, on the other hand, was personal. Not as easily forgiven nor forgotten.
ooooooo… talk about pro hockey rumors. a wife spat?!? tell us more. what’s the juice??
Oh I’m definitely overselling it haha. It’d be one thing if it happened last year… however, Hoffman has been a perennial prick throughout his career so I can’t say I’d be excited to see him in teal this season
It had something to do with hoffmans wife making fun of the karlsons son who had passed if i remember correctly
Correct. Karlsson’s son was stillborn, unfortunately. Mrs. Karlsson and Hoffman’s then girlfriend had a beef and the latter posted something very insensitive.
@renegade
The situation is more complicated than that. Somebody was trolling Karlsson’s wife online, and Monika Caryk (Hoffman’s girlfriend) was accused of being that person. So she “allegedly” posted something insensitive. Innocent, until proven guilty:
“The protection order application was never served to Caryk or tested in court, and no order was made. Ottawa police started a criminal harassment investigation into the allegations, but to date, no criminal charges have been laid against Caryk. Caryk has not only repeatedly denied harassing Karlsson to the newspaper, but she has also done so while under oath in a court filing and deposition.”
link to sportskeeda.com
all our bad players for Karlsson
LFG
Yeah the trade proposal trolls actually win one for once. Not good to embolden them, but I’ll take the win.
I’m stunned. This is incredible.
In Dubas we trust! I like the way he maneuvered this one with Grier. It’s good for all parties involved. Now let’s play some hockey
In my opinion all 3 teams win the trade, but SJ should have gotten more
Kind of wondering why Montreal even helped broker this. The return is meh.
SJ dumped 40mil from one player (who was the worst “defender” in the league arguably) from their roster. That’s their reward
Easy to get rid of hoffman contract. Then you still have a slot to eat 50% of petry contract and sell him off as a 2.5ish mil dman at a better price. Or entice someone to take petry at a discounted 2.5mil along with armia and hughes would be seen as a genius with the only large contract to get rid of in gallagher..
Good move by the Habs. They get a 2nd round pick and a solid D-man who may not have played as well in Pittsburgh but who was a solid player for them. Plus they clear out two forwards who were not in their long term plans, thus opening up room for younger players. And it’s very likely that Petry will be moved at some point, thus bringing in more assets.
Not at all. Got rid of Hoffman and Petry already played for the Habs so they got him back for nothing
Yeah, but they ‘needed’ the Habs. I’d have asked for a first rounder to play broker, even if there was a salary that was dumped – which was in its final year anyway. They gained a 2nd rounder and 2.5M basically in order to facilitate.
I get that but trading away Hoffman is a major win plus I was reading that they could get a 1st round pick for Petry from either Buffalo or Dallas. They will have 5.25 mill in cap space yet after Price goes on the long term injured list
Not a good trade at all for San Jose. The only asset of value that they got was the 1st round pick. No prospects. Just 3 players that weren’t wanted by their previous teams.
incredible they didn’t get Ty Smith or Samuel Poulin out of this
Much like the Meier trade. Underwhelming returns in these deals.
They didn’t get much in return, because they didn’t retain much. Pittsburgh is gonna be stuck with a $10 million cap hit for 4 years, which could wind up being brutal for them. SJ wins, cause they got out from under that ridiculous contract.
That part is true. An albatross of a contract.
Yeah. Teams have paid a lot more to get awful contracts like that off their books. San Jose GETS a first rounder, everyone’s off the books by 2025, and they only have to retain $1.5 MM. This is about as much of a win for the Sharks as they were ever likely to get.
The Sharks could have done that without taking Hoffman. Take Granlund & Rutta. Adding Hoffman makes little sense. He’s a guy who has been a locker room problem in the past & you add that to a team where you are trying to bring youth into the lineup. He’s not a good influence on those younger players.
No buyouts and almost all of Hextall’s mistakes are gone?
I didn’t mind Rutta, though, and hope we do better than Ruhwedel as the #6 D. Any decent free agents left?
Other than that minor concern, really nice work by Dubas here.
When Jake gets healthy, our top two units match up with any in the league and, if nothing else, will be very fun to watch.
I’m assuming Ty Smith will play the right side
A Joseph-Smith pairing sounds like a pretty bad idea. Either of them really needs to be paired with a solid defensive D man. Putting the two of them together with no safety nets…doesn’t sound like a Sully move.
But, the only UFA left that would be an upgrade seems to be Ethan Bear, who might cost a bit too much.
Then again, it’s August and he still doesn’t have a job. Dubas should call his agent.
Bear is also injured & won’t play before December
Actually, then it might work. Ruhwedel is fine for a while and Bear might cost less with the injury risk.
Man we were all fooled by this move
I love love love this trade from San Jose. Minimal salary retained, roster players added, and a first rounder. It’s about the best result I could have expected.
Pittsburgh though… What on earth are they thinking? Crosby, Malkin, Letang and now Karlsson are eating up a huge chunk of the salary. This is gonna be Toronto all over again – a team hung by the neck by mammoth contracts at the top. Not sure what the plan here is.
The plan is to score more goals than the other team.
Adding a 100 point player who controls the ice bascially for free (the picks were to dump our trash) should help that plan.
Just curious as you seem to be a Sharks fan: How do you think about Karlsson occupying a retention slot? Might make deadline trades a bit more difficult?
Don’t mind it. Sharks gotta move on from the DW era. Gotta do what you gotta do.
Do you know how much Crosby & Malkin actually make? They just got rid of all their bad contracts.
Well, except Carter. But I’ll take it!
@Mr Goodkat
Garbage in, garbage out
Pittsburgh gets an oft injured offenseman, that doesn’t really fix the holes in their team, loses a 1st rounder, from the already consensus worst farm system, and will pay $10 mill, for four years, for the privilege.
Was last year just the start of a career renaissance for him, or an exception? We’ll see.
$10 a year is hardly free. If this was a free agent deal, I would call 4 years at $10million an overpay.
Its not about getting Karlsson though. If he plays exceptionally well its a bonus. They just cleared all of Hextall’s mistakes in one fell swoop.
Karlsson’s contract is brutal of course, but its one bad contract on a guy with upside to dream on instead of half a dozen uninspiring players on terrible deals.
Cap goes up next year and beyond then they are likely in full tear down mode, so who cares?
Their window is likely shut either way if we’re being honest, but might as well go down swinging. And this is certainly a swing, you can’t argue that…
@Goodkat
It’s a lateral move, salary wise, but cost their consensus dead last farm system a 1st round pick.
If you still believe in plus/minus, look at his. Simply terrible. He’s an offenseman.
I agree with you though. If you’re gonna take a rip, make it a home run swing. You connect, or you whiff.
Oh I have plenty of reservations about Karlsson. The upside of them making it work though is far higher than standing pat with Petry, Rutta, Granny, etc…and since they weren’t making a run with that crew…the potential downside doesn’t bother me.
I’d love to see the alternate reality where they move all these bad contracts WITHOUT taking on the risk of Karlsson, but I doubt I’d have liked the price tag, and, at this point in FA, who are you bringing in with that space? That would have almost been a play for 2024 at this point, which makes little sense.
They are going all in on this, pure and simple. Low chance it works (only trophies count in this city), but it’ll be fun to watch.
@Goodkat
The downside is, they’ve killed their depth. When you have the consensus worst farm system in the league, you don’t have NHL ready players to bring up. Better hope no one gets hurt. And that team isn’t off to a good start, with Guentzel out three months. A few injuries, and they’re toast, just like Washington was last year.
but isn’t it kinda worth the risk? clearly Penguins plan is go for the Cup as long as Crosby is there, and then head into the wilderness for like, 6 years. it’s a sensible strategy, given the alternatives.
if it doesn’t work out, well, 28 or 29 other teams ain’t gonna win the Cup the next 3 years either
What depth did they kill? 2 picks that aren’t on the team yet? A terrible acquisition they didn’t want in the lineup anyways and was going to be bought out or dumped with a pick? Karlsson replaces petry. No loss there. They already had too many D-men, so ditching Rutta’s contract is no problem. Legare? Once interesting prospect. Now not so much.
They didn’t trade depth, they pruned the players they were already looking to dump (thanks a lot, Ronald). That’s why this trade is a win for them in 2023. Arguing that isn’t going to get you far. They are a better team today than they were yesterday, plain and simple.
NOW, it is likely to turn into a bad deal for them in 1-2 years. We’re not stupid, we see that. We just don’t care. Sid has 3 cups. We’ll live if he doesn’t bring this city a 4th, but lets roll the dice one more time. The shine off those 3 cups will light us through the dark years ahead…
@Goodkat
You destroyed your defensive depth. So who do you go to, when injuries strike? Your AHL team had the second fewest wins in the league. Granlund, Petry and Rutta are not bad players, just overpaid. Personally with a cupboard barer than Old Mother Hubbard’s at the AHL level, I’d have wanted to keep NHL experience around. You’re just one or two injuries away from a lost season, but hey, you got your 100 point offenseman. The Penguins were 19th in the league in goals against, and give away a couple of decent defensive defenseman, for an offenseman, and did nothing to address their shaky goaltending, in fact, they hurt their goaltending depth too.
Keep rationalizing, but it’s falling on deaf ears. And I didn’t even bring up the two draft picks lost, which further cripples that last in the league farm system.
I’m of the opinion that you try to win as many cups as possible while Sidney Crosby is on the roster.
there will be plenty of years to rebuild the farm after he’s gone
Shero destroyed the youth depth.
any pick now won’t be up in time to matter.
Poulin is their top NHL-ready prospect and they still have him
they gave up a bunch of washed up vets in the deal
How is a net loss of 1 defenseman (on the side they have a glut of) “destroying their depth on defense”? Not to mention defense is the one position they have a small bit of depth at. Forward reinforcements are where the cupboard is bare.
And yes, it is ALL about things breaking just right now, obviously. But again, they are a better team now than they were with Petry and Rutta. If you disagree with that then we just need to agree to disagree…
@Goodkat
You’re trying to claim that quantity is quality. The Penguins gave up the kind of defenseman they need, for the kind they don’t need. If you don’t see how bad your third pair is, I can’t help you. Rutta would have helped that third pair. If you really think Karlsson will help a 19th in the league GA, I can’t help you there, either.
You’re excited over your new toy, but may as well face facts. He’s inconsistent, injury prone, and above all else, won’t fix the problems the team has.
Correct. Karlsson is a big enough upgrade over Petry that I’m not concerned with losing Rutta on the 3rd pairing. He is a solid option in a 3rd pairing, but they can simply sign another option to add to the mix or swing another (much much more minor) trade.
After this complex of a deal was pulled off, I trust they can figure out what to do with the 3rd pairing depth. Thats important, yes, but much smaller potatoes. Offseason isn’t over.
“but they can simply sign another option to add to the mix or swing another (much much more minor) trade.”
There are few options remaining. Swinging another trade would almost certainly require trading even more draft picks. Pittsburgh GMs spend their draft capital like shopaholics with a fistful of platinum credit cards.
” Karlsson is a big enough upgrade over Petry”
He’s not an upgrade, he’s a different kind of player. A defensive liability. I have already pointed out to you the below average defense the Penguins already have. Karlsson does not address that, in fact, makes them worse.
“I trust they can figure out what to do with the 3rd pairing depth.”
Thats a lot of trust. I’ve seen a lot of teams sink with weak 3rd pairs. Letang and Karlsson will be logging a lot of minutes this season. If either goes down, the team should immediately make their April tee times.
Have fun with your shiny new toy.
It wouldn’t surprise me to see the pens limp or stumble into the playoffs then Crosby, Malkin, and Letang decide to burn what nhl time they have left and play on that next level and “end there careers” hoisting there last cup.
Btw I mean no I’ll will or wish they end there careers, I’m saying there gonna to end there careers on there own terms by laying it all down to get 1 more, and if they do that and not win I’ll still give them mad respect for going for it
Can flip some of the acquired assets for future long term assets (+), acquiring a 1st (another +) & removing $10mil per of Karlsson’s long term salary (another +) so SJ made out great with this trade.
The only way the Pens win in this deal is if EK stays healthy and has 2 more monster seasons.
Even if he doesn’t though its basically a wash. This was a great deal for them. So many bad contracts gone.
Anyone who doesn’t see a 3-year rebuild post-Sid is nuts. Not worry about losing a few picks. They’ll have 2-3 years of Top 5 picks eventually.
3 year post-Sid rebuild sounds optimistic
2-3 years of Top 5 picks, then a few years of building. Whole process theoretically takes about 5 on paper.
But sure, they could also channel the Sabres and have it take 20.
@deepseamonster
Its waaaaay too optimistic. The Penguins are looking at a minimum 5 year rebuild post-Crosby, unless they luck into Sid 2.0 in the draft. Their farm system is completely bare. The Penguins and Washington have followed similar paths, and about two years ago, had the two worst farm systems. But the Capitals have restocked (at least some) since then, the Penguins didn’t. They have to rebuild that farm system, from the ground up. That’ll be a brutal job. Expect a lot of Top 5 lottery picks in the late 2020s.
I literally said the whole process is a minimum of five years. The hope is that 2-3 of those years are “upward trajectory years” following the inevitable 2 year rock-bottom years to reset their cap and stack a few Top 5 picks in the system.
As I also said, that is the blueprint. Not a certainty. Teams like the Sabres have shown this can take decades, not years.
The goal of the National Hockey League is to win Cups. Not make the playoffs every year. For almost 2 decades the Penguins succeeded at both. Frankly, they could suck the next 2 decades and I still wouldn’t agree to turn back the clocks and play it safe when Shero started trading every draft pick he could get his hands on. Sure, they’d be in a better position now, but at what cost?
3 Cups in 15 years is fantastic in the Salary Cap Era. 3 cups in 30 years will still be better than most of the league will be able to say.
You are missing the mushy middle years from your rebuild. PIT has already starred, they just don’t know it yet. You’ve got 3 to 5 years of mushy middle, 1-2 years accepting it and 5 years of being in it. This is why it takes 10 years to be good – too many teams spend years in limbo thinking they aren’t bad which end up being wasted years (the rangers are the exception I can think of who committed to an early aggressive rebuild and came out of it fast)
Sure, if you want to call last year and this year mushy middle, then agreed. I personally don’t start the clock until the team clearly accepts it and initiates the process.
And again — LOUDER FOR THOSE IN THE BACK! — what I am describing is the ideal process. And acknowledging even that takes > 3 years, more like 5. Obviously when things don’t break right or mistakes are made or drafts are weak, it takes longer. Sometimes considerably.
Five years in, that first draft class is 23 years old. Maybe there’s another superduperstar at the top of the draft, maybe they win the lottery and get the next Lafrienere. The Penguins are riding with Crosby until he’s done, they will have little on the farm nor much of value to trade, and probably bad money on the books.
This rebuild will be starting from scratch. Five years in, being this past season’s Sabres is a hopeful place. Being the Ducks is just as likely.
Definitely better than mine it took 51 years to win a cup so by that math I’ll be 86 next time the note wins a cup
I think the Flames should trade Hanifin now
I thought the Sharks were going through a natural rebuild? What the Sharks received in return doesn’t seem like rebuild material minus the 1st rd pick (top 10 protected). No other prospects or other draft picks.
well it was either retain half EKs salary and net a great return
or only eat 1.5 and end up with this
Hoffman and Karlsson part of the same trade again
The Incompetent Mike Grier got fleeced!!!!!!
If Hoffman gets back to his career average of scoring in SJ they can trade him for picks/prospects. Same holds witb the other players down the road for SJ. At least SJ is no longer stuck with a $10+mil per salary on 1 player no more.
@wilfpaiement
Gee, imagine that. Another negative comment about Grier from your keyboard.
If Grier had acquired Crosby, Letang, and a couple of 1st round picks for Karlsson. You would still be b*tching about Grier.
Then again, most of your comments have a typical slant or biased criticism to them that shows your mindset and the type of person you probably are.
People forget that when we (Pens fans) got Phil Kessel virtually no one was saying “he’s the final piece of a Cup championship puzzle”. They were saying “well, at least they’ll be fun to watch again”.
Let’s see what happens and be entertained in the meantime.
Let’s go Pens.
PS- I love how many players who were already HOF players have meandered their way to PGH. Iginla, Hossa, Robitaille, to name a few. Now add Karlsson to the list.
Everyone laughing at and hating on the Phil addition made him playing so well and winning the cup (2x) oh so sweet.
This just looks like the hockey trade version of a 3 car pileup.
I feel bad for Pens radio color man, Phil Bourque, who already gets exhausted at Letang turning over the puck. Now he has Karlsson to add to the misery. :D
$10 million/year, for offenseman Erik Karlsson, to a team that’s not really close to a Cup. That’s a lot to pay, salary-wise, for one or two first round playoff exits.
are they actually not close to a cup or have they had untimely GK injuries?
I seem to remember them greatly outplaying the Rangers in the playoffs but being foiled by 3rd string gk
same thing last year.. in 1st for portion of season .. then Jarry goes down and team unfolds (also Hextall trades didn’t help at all)
It is amazing how much you can do when you have no a** clowns blocking everything that you what to do…Dubas what a steal..Open book to make deals..San Jose and Montreal got suckered…
It’s amazing how little you know about nhl contracts and what is going on in the nhl! Lol how many teams could have taken on karllson contract? Montreal made out like bandits on this trade dumped Hoffman and pitlick for nothing and will get a return for petry at a low cap hit and somehow also got a 2nd round pick. No team lost this trade win win win
I think I know alittle about nhl contracts my post is to state what Dubas has done since getting to Pitts that he was held back by boneheads so read the post next time and by your SillySundin name I take it that you are a Die Hard Leaf fan ..Good luck this year..
I dont care what Pitts got your “ sharks and habs got suckered “ comment is just stupid. Every team did good on this trade it rarely happens but this is one that is. And btw the habs did very well in this trade its a big win for them Hughes made a very intelligent trade
Oh sorry I was taught something today everybody wins thanks..I will touch up on my trade and contract knowledge no more stupid comments….:(
That would be appreciated everyone on these comments thanks you
I will let you know when I comment next time so you can proof read it
Thank you more guys like you should do that
:):):):):) : : :
I don’t really like this trade for any team involved. If I had to pick a winner I’m taking mtl. Pittsburgh will be a fun team to watch (and to use in nhl24) but not sure how they will be defensively with Letang and Karlsson on the back end. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.
You bring up a good point…I might have to buy NHL 24 now
I used the NHL 24 comparison too.
Everyone always thinks that it’s a real life game of fantasy hockey, and all things are equal. They’re not. With a trade like this, you’re swinging for the fences. You either knock it out of the park, or you whiff spectacularly.
Yep. Now of course I think Pittsburgh made a mistake, they’re not going to get a Cup with this roster, they’re perilously thin on depth (among other things, they’re really betting on Jarry staying healthy and good, aren’t they now?), and this just pushes back the necessary teardown another couple years. But if they were going to get Karlsson at all, this could’ve been more painful.
Yeah I think it will be tough for that roster to win, they are getting very old, so health comes in to play as well as speed. I would love to see them have a great season, I love me some sid and geno, but I wonder how the team is going to look come playoff time after grinding out a 82 game season. They don’t have a lot of depth to compliment the roster, Karlsson is a great player, but acquiring him just spread them even thinner.
Fire Mike Grier! This is a pathetic return for the best defenseman in the NHL! Damnit, I hate being a Sharks fan
Because it deludes you into thinking Karlsson is the best defenseman in the NHL or…?
@itsmeheyhii—Well, EK65 did outscore all other D-men in the league for one straight year in a row. As in, he didn’t defend his butt out of a wet paper bag, but piled up a crapload of nutritionless cookies. Kind of what you just said… @geoffb1982 – Karlsson’s best defending days are way in the past, I’m afraid. But, on the positive side, he will be remembered for mastering the 120′ tape-to-tape lob wedge, so there’s that.
Karlsson is the best winger playing on defense. He has never been a good defenseman. He scores a lot, but he cannot defend even at an average rate.
Are you sure you’re a Sharks fan? Cuz if you were, you might recall how Karlsson’s $11.5 million was one of the most expensive contracts in the league, and for a player that was frequently injured and is really quite bad at defending. He’s possibly the best quarterback defenceman in the league right now, sure, but what value does a player like that have for a team floundering at the bottom of the league?
This moves frees up $10 million of cap space not just this year, but for many more to come. It allows the Sharks to actually rebuild.
Granlund is a decent player but the first rounder is obviously the best asset the Sharks acquired. Montreal did pretty well for themselves in this three-way. Karlsson is clearly going to help the Pens this year, but he is not the superior player he used to be.
Need more time for this to be graded. Let’s see what petry, rutta, Hoffman, despite and granlund end up doing/being traded for. Biggest surprise for me is the tiny 1.5 retained. I’m not sure anyone saw that coming. Initial thoughts are SJS did worst in this trade (again…)
despite should read DeSmith.
I think a lot of people look at the EK65 contract in isolation so say PIT overcommitted but they aren’t taking into account that they shifted out $13m in cap. Essentially saying, they are saving $3m for him being on the team, and he is better than all they shipped out combined. PIT certainly gets better at a cost of a 1st pick. The negative is that the cap hit is now over 4 years instead of 2. Dubas did well but it doesn’t move the needle for PIT – they still get eliminated in the 1st round by either NJD or CAR, assuming they are good enough for 3rd in the division which isn’t a lock.
My main wondering is what Grier wants to do with the $. Essentially, if you have cap but you don’t need to sign players, you are stuck in perpetual Arizona land taking crap contracts of paying low salary. I don’t see anyone who needs money coming up so I shake my head at why you’d want to save the $ and make the team worse.
@DevilShark
The article says a net savings of $3.1 million, but my numbers don’t add up to that, since Pitlik eats up another $1.1 million, plus Pittsburgh retained $1.5 on Petry. It’s closer to a wash on salaries for the Penguins. I have the Pens shipping out $14.2 ($5+ $2.7 + $4.69 + $1.8) for $12.6 ($10+ $1.1 + $1.5) for a savings of $1.6 million. The only way their numbers make sense, is if they didn’t add the Penguins retention of Petry’s salary. Then it equals $3.1
If anyone wants to correct me on this, feel free to.
Could be true, I just took the authors word for it.
The point stands – they get Karlsson for little to no cap consideration until 2026 and their team gets better this year. Not better enough to matter – still quite far behind NJD and CAR in my opinion.
It looks like you’re double counting the Petry retention by including it as 4.69 out for Pit and then adding in 1.5 to the 12.6. they’re only bringing in 11.1 in cap
@admiral
The retention still counts against the cap. The article didn’t count it at all. So it’s not a “net savings” if they’re paying for a player who isn’t playing for them. It’s dead cap.
The $3.1MM figure was from CapFriendly at the time of the trade. They take on a $11.1MM cap hit from Karlsson and Pitlick and ship out Petry ($4.7MM), DeSmith ($1.8MM), Granlund ($5MM), and Rutta ($2.75MM), which equals $14.25MM – so yes, roughly $3.1MM savings. They retained $1.5MM on Petry… they didn’t add it from elsewhere
The retention counts against the cap, yes, but it was already part of their previous cap hit before the trade – it’s not a new charge, which is how CapFriendly delineates the figure.
@Josh
OK, I see it now. Just don’t really agree with calculating it that way, since they’re still paying that $1.5 mill. So it’s really not a $3.1 million savings, since that dead space can’t be used on something else.
@KRB
I’m very well aware retention counts against the cap – I was stating that you were double counting the retention. If you’re gonna add it in to get to 12.6 then you need to take it out at it’s full value of 6.25 for what Pit has going out
But it is a $3.1m savings because if they didn’t retain it would be a $4.6m savings. Petry’s actual cap number is $6.25m, not $4.7m
@admiral
I see how it was calculated, but I’m not “double counting”
I counted the retention as an in, when it wasn’t. My mistake. But at least accuse me of the crime I committed, not something else.
Guess you gotta like that Pittsburgh is swinging for the fences, but if they don’t win the Cup with him, then this trade is a bust. This is not a real life game of NHL 24. All things are not equal. This further cripples an already consensus dead last farm system, doesn’t help their pedestrian goaltending, and doesn’t keep pucks out of the net. Outscoring the other team generally isn’t a recipe for winning, these days.
With nothing in the farm system, they can’t bring up young, cheap players, on ELCs, to save money. It’s all in for them.
I’m not surprised at SJ’s return. They needed to retain more, to get more.
It was already Cup or Bust in Pittsburgh because of Crosby.
They had to do something. I’m curious what you think they should have done otherwise?
@deepseamonster
Just like Washington, Pittsburgh has a generational future Hall of Famer, that they owe a lot to, and both teams mortgaged their future’s, trying to win the Cup. But when you strip your farm systems, you will find it hard to compete, in today’s salary cap world. If you look at most of the Cup winning teams of the last few years, they’ve used drafted superstars, free agent acquisitions, trade acquisitions, and young, cheap kids. Going into a complete rebuild right now, would be disrespectful to both Crosby and Ovechkin. So both teams are between a rock and a hard place. Both teams are finding it hard to retool on the fly, since they both have stripped farm systems, without cheap, NHL ready talent, available now.
Pittsburgh is in a really bad place now. They have no assets to deal, except draft picks. There’s no good solution for them, because their farm system, and picks, we’re stripped like a 1940s coal mine.
Washington was smart last year. They gave up early, got some assets for expiring contracts. They’re trying to retool, and are counting on a new coach, and team health, to be competitive.
So what would I have done? I wouldn’t have traded for Karlsson. I would have looked to upgrade my goaltending. Jarry is pedestrian, at best. I wouldn’t have traded for Granlund, or Petry, in the first place, so I wouldn’t have had to get rid of that 10 mill. I would have looked for better, cheaper upgrades at D. I do love their signing of Lars Eller though.
Start the rebuild. There is, in fact, nothing magically inherent about Sidney Crosby’s presence on a roster compelling Pittsburgh to try something, anything, to Win! Now! He would not be the first, nor the fiftieth, future Hall of Famer who spent his last years on a non-contending team … and unlike many others in a similar boat, he’s got his Cup rings already. He surely has nothing left to prove, and nothing he hasn’t already achieved.
@KRB, I actually agree that not getting Petry and Granlund would’ve been smart. A mid-season selloff to get assets for 23-24 would’ve been smart. We probably agree up to that point.
Personally, I blame whoever hired the Philadelphia Flyer legend who… hang on let me put on my tinfoil hat… CONVENIENTLY made absolutely godawful decisions for the Penguins.
I’m for this deal based on the spot Hextall put em in. They’re so boxed in. Gotta go for it!! Gotta have some fun!! 1980s hockey, baby!!
Screw the rebuild. That can happen anytime, now or later. There’s no guarantee the Penguins are sooooo lucky next time they park in last place. How many teams rebuild and never get anywhere?
Also, Sidney Crosby didn’t become Sidney Crosby by being OK with playing for some bum team! Dude wants to WIN
You snooze, you lose! Horrible deal for the Sharts, I love it!
grier did right thing. better to get Guys with short contracts. rather having money hanging over their head like Minnesota does with Parise/Suter,.Rutta guy they can trade at trade deadline for a pick. maybe granland finds game can move him also.. Hoffman jerk and only scores goals. nothing else. Desmith don’t see anywhere He is upgrade what teams have. petry will be moved. Montreal will do right by him. He signed and played there. Hughes has shown class so far.
He already gave away a third in this trade. With salary retained they might get a 3rd for Rutta at the deadline to make it a wash.
They only have 1 slot left to retain so if they retain on Rutta they can’t retain on Granlund and nobody will take him on at $5m so the return will be nothing. Hoffman might be tradeable if he plays well. I doubt SJS gets much more from trading who they brought in. Potentially they can trade Granlund the following deadline with 50% retained for a decent pick – if he plays well this season potentially a 2nd or a 1st. If he plays poorly then a 4th.
I think it’ll stay a poor trade for SJS until we see them use that cap space wisely. If it ends up sitting there doing nothing then it’s value out for no gain.
Also Pittsburgh has to go all in Now. When Crosby ,Malkin ,Letang and now Karlsson done they fall off cliff Justlike tampa will. They understand you only have these top players for short time . Go for it. Better that stuck in middle team like Vancouver is
Sharks rebuild is going to be a long one.
By the bye, this is the other rub, which no one’s really mentioned. Pittsburgh is betting HEAVILY that starting at age 33, the Karlsson they get for the next few years is the 2023 healthy superstar. No one’s much considering what happens if the Karlsson they wind up getting is the 2019-2022 version, who missed 20-25 games a year and was decidedly *not* a superstar while on ice … y’know, the guy who was sorta consensus “worst deal in the league” Karlsson.
The Pens get THAT guy, and it’s lights out: mushy non-playoff middle at best.
We just added a 100 point defenseman AND moved out a bunch of bad deals.
Literally nothing to dislike here.
ANY move that doesn’t work out will obviously not work out…so yeah, if Dubois gets hurt or stinks, it won’t work out, if DeBrincat gets hurt or stinks, it won’t work out and if Karlsson gets hurt or stinks, it won’t work out.
The EK from the years you cite had just lost a child, had a wife to console and had a coach trying to crowbar him and Burns on the same PP. No reason to think last year is the fluke when he’s been a superstar his whole career until the aforementioned happened to him.
You added a guy who got 100 points last year. He didn’t lose a child each and every time he DIDN’T have a good season, four years running, to put it bluntly. It is far, far likelier that a 33-year-old injury-prone defenseman who not only beat his career high by nearly twenty points but hit a threshold no defenseman’s done in a generation will revert to the mean — and possibly sharply — than otherwise.
You’re not a dumb guy; none of this should be a mystery to you.
The grief of losing a child, having a wife who lost a child and having a wife who was cyberstalked by a teammates’s fiance over said dead child IS limited to a single season?
Uhhh, K. Did not know that.
And, also….the idea that, what, a 70 or 80 point D man is worthless….? It’s ONLY if he gets 100 again that he has value? K.
This is a swing for the fences and a really good one for a late at bat. For cheap. No mystery here.
Dubas erased every Hextall fuck up in 1 trade, and Al it cost him was 40 million
Can somebody on here explain what part of the Dubas Legend am I missing? He took over a team with two 21 year old franchise superstars along with a young top pair defenseman and another 22 year old, top 6 forward.
Was immediately gifted an $11 million per year, top line center, and parlayed that into exactly one playoff victory in 4 years.
Now he goes to the oldest team in the league, a team that is totally washed up and hasn’t won a playoff round in 6 years and his first move is to ship out what little draft value he has left for a 33 year old player pulling $10 million in cap space for several more seasons?
Why? So they can, if everything breaks right, sneak into the final WC spot and get bounced in the first round again?
After this season, this team won’t be even vaguely relevant until like 2035. It’s going to be the longest rebuild in history lol.
Yeah, after 3 Cups, 1 runner up, 18 straight years of playoffs and a boatload of HOF players, we might have to rebuild. Eventually.
The HORROR.
Meanwhile, unless someone is both old as dirt and speaks both French and English, we’ve seen our team win more than yours, I promise we’ll be fine.
Well, not the bandwagon yinzgrates, but F them.
You “might have to rebuild”?
Gee, ya think?
How does 2034 sound? It’s going to take a decade to get out of this. No young talent. No picks. No trade assets. Worst farm system in the league.
Congrats on the Cups, you will have a long time to watch the videos, and your springs and summers will be free for like 10 years.
I’m not being sarcastic about the Cups either… you guys had a great run and were an unbelievable team. But time marches on and while your team gets old everybody around you is stockpiling elite young talent.
It’s going to be a long road back. A really long road. I hope all of the fans are as loyal as you when you go off the cliff.
They are not…
But, F them.
And it WILL take a decade IF we short circuit the rebuild.
OTOH, if we let nature take it’s (current) course, the foundation will crumble into dust in a few years and we should collect 4-5 years of top picks.
In 2001, Mario, Jagr and Johan Hedberg led the Pens to an ECF run…Mario’s last.
We drafted Whitney in 2002, MAF in 2003, Geno in 04, Sid in 05 and finally Jordan Staal in 2006. All top 5 picks.
By 2008-2009, we were back in the Final and the next year we won another Cup.
That’s the blueprint to follow.
Yep. I saw an article about how they could squeeze Matthew under the cap next offseason on a long-term deal.
Exciting, but I’d pass. That would set them up to have to basically build a contender in FA, which is almost never successful without cheap, homegrown talent.
My concern is that ownership (and GM) will not be patient enough to sign up for rock bottom and follow the Mario-to-Sid rebuild template. The world (and fanbase with it) has changed a lot in those 20+ years…
Did the Sharks lowball their retention number because of the potential buyout ramifications?
Not totally sure where San Jose is in their rebuild, so 4 years retention otherwise is a long way out, but was curious about their thinking. Thought they might keep more to get better assets
Great piece of analysis from the Athletic’s trade grade article…
“The choice here is simple: Do you want Sidney Crosby — 36 years old on Monday — to play for an actual contender, or don’t you? Do you want to watch the best player of his generation compete in relevant games as his career winds down? The guy has something left in his tank. Why would anyone choose to waste that? Why would anyone choose not to maximize it?”
Exactly.
Anything less is sabotage.
Question number 2 for the Athletic:
Do you want to wait another 10 years until you are a relevant NHL team?
If so, then proceed to empty the tank to appease Sidney Crosby.
Are they going to trade Crosby? No.
If they don’t trade Crosby, will they bottom out while he’s still on the team and still elite? No.
If they don’t bottom out, can they get the high picks they need to properly rebuild? No.
SO many people have had their brains Moneyballed into oblivion, I get it…but the formula you and so many others want (tear it down now, can’t wait, can’t wait, they aren’t heavy favorites to win, tear it down now, now now) is EXACTLY what would land them in the mushy middle of irrelevancy.
So again….sabotage.
Sabotaging the final years of your cores’ (who won you many Cups) careers AND sabotaging your own rebuild by doing it half ***ed.
Didn’t know they spoke French in Detroit… and today I learned anyone 26 or older is as old as dirt…
How old would you have to be to have seen Detroit win 6 Cups? I’ll wait.
While I wait feel free to find the post where you say I said the exact opposite of everything I actually said. I’ll continue to wait.
This trade is hockey’s version of the final scene in “The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly” involving Clint Eastwood, Lee Van Cleef, and Eli Wallach. It’ll take a couple of seasons to determine which team is (spoiler alert) Clint Eastwood.
The only issue I have with this trade is the acquisition of Hoffman. Hopefully, he’s only around for a short time in SJ and gets flipped for a draft pick or prospect.
Not a playoff team.